JOAN RIVERS is gone. Even after a few months, it’s almost impossible to believe, and like many deaths of celebrities we hold especially dear, it’s hard to imagine our world without them in it. I was an especially lucky fan—and I was an epic fan—because, as a journalist, I got to meet and interview Rivers on several occasions.
It’s one thing to watch a really amazing stand-up comic. But Rivers was something else, and you could tell that when you were talking to her. She was so quick on her feet, she could make you laugh with anything and everything you brought up. In journalism, when someone gives great, thoughtful quotes, it’s called a generous interview. Sitting down with Rivers felt like Christmas in a household with a small army of children.
I queried Rivers about why so many gay men felt such a powerful connection with her, notwithstanding that she just could be the most widely “done” female celebrity in all of dragdom. “Because I’m a strong woman, because I didn’t get there easily. They were my first audience. They were the first ones to get it. Whatever ‘it’ was. And they’ve still been there for me. They’ve been there for the ups, there for the downs. They’ve been there for everything. It’s all strong women—it’s Liza, it’s me, it’s Bette Midler. You know that.”
Rivers’ routine was unapologetically caustic, one of the things that kept her gay audiences hooked. When I spoke to her in 2002, she had been hit with some criticism from Rosie O’Donnell, who wasn’t happy with some cracks Rivers had made at her expense. O’Donnell had just come out. Rivers shot back: “She finally came out on her show and said, ‘I’m gay!’ No shit. I thought you were going to surprise me and say you were straight. A woman with 185 pantsuits in her wardrobe. I’d had my suspicions.” That quote would go viral when I included it in a profile.
Her running gags about Liz Taylor’s weight was the one time she worried she had gone too far. “I contacted [her]through Roddy McDowall. He was a very close friend of hers and was godfather to Melissa [Rivers, Joan’s daughter]. I said if it’s too much, I’ll stop. He came back and said that Liz had said, ‘Tell her it doesn’t hurt me where I live.’ I thought that was amazing, that Taylor was secure enough in herself and her beauty that it didn’t matter.” I then asked her about her friendship with McDowall. He was a famous actor who was always obviously gay, I noted, even in the Planet of the Apes movies, when he was acting through inches of make-up. “He liked the make-up,” she whispered, without pause.
But there were times when she altered her act if she felt it was doing real harm. “Willie Nelson’s daughter complained that she was getting a hard time at school. I used to joke that [Willie] was so dirty he wore a roach motel around his neck. So I took it right out. If a child is going to school and getting teased, of course you take it out.” On the other hand, another gay icon complained to Rivers when she was dropped from her routine: “Cher was upset with me because I took her out of the act. I used to do a routine on her, I used to knock over a cardboard cut-out of Cher, and then when it was on the floor I’d say, ‘That’s your favorite position!’ When I stopped, she called me and demanded to know why I’d left her out.”
When I asked her if she ever felt like walking away from the grind, her response reflected much of the pain she’s experienced: “Walking away from the business, never. Ups and downs, every single fucking day. It’s tough, it’s a mean business; it’s not a friendly business to anyone unless you’ve made the connections. I never made the connections, because I think comedians have to be outsiders. I have one friend who’s a very famous comedian, and he told me one day that he was going riding this weekend with Jackie Onassis. And I thought, ‘Honey, you’re finished.’ And indeed, his career took a nosedive. You’re always an outsider—so there’s no one there to help you. It’s all about numbers. When you’re hot, everybody loves you.”
I’ll never forget her last few words to me, when I interviewed her by phone about her reality TV show with daughter Melissa, as she was having her hair bleached. Knowing she’d have something to say, I asked her what she thought of Britney Spears. “I can’t wait for her career to be over so she can serve me coffee at 7-11!” When that comment went to print, it went viral—as Rivers undoubtedly knew it would.
Matthew Hays teaches film studies at Marianopolis College and Concordia University in Montreal.
